Blue Jays Reject Phillies Latest Offer For Roy Halladay
by Matt Buggenhagen on Jul 26, 2009 5:08 PM EDT
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PrintThe Philadelphia Phillies and Toronto Blue Jays continue to negotiate a deal for right-hander Roy Halladay, but according to Jason Stark of ESPN.com, the Blue Jays have rejected the Phil's latest offer.
Yesterday it was reported that the Blue Jays had submitted a formal proposal to the Phillies, which included young starters J.A. Happ, Kyle Drabek and outfielder Dominic Brown. The Phillies, who have no intention of trading both Happ and Drabek, shot down the deal.
Today the Phillies elected to counter the Blue Jays, submitting a four-for-one deal that didn't include their top-hitting prospect-Brown, or their top-pitching prospect-Drabek. Instead, the Phillies proposed a deal that would have sent Happ, along with young pitcher Carlos Carrasco, outfielder Michael Taylor and shortstop Jason Donald.
Carrasco, Taylor and Donald are all highly regarded prospects within the Phillies organization, and are all currently playing for the Phillies Triple-A affiliate Lehigh Valley. For a team to offer up four of their better prospects for one player is pretty remarkable, however, the Blue Jays quickly rejected the revised proposal.
Blue Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi has said from day one that if he isn't blow away with an offer he won't deal Halladay. The more and more these negotiations play out the more I'm starting to believe Ricciardi.
The Phillies have seemed like the front-runner over the last few weeks, but it's clear that the two sides are still very far apart. It's very possible that the Phillies have opened the door for another contender to swoop in and grab Halladay, however, maybe it's in the best interest of all the contenders if Halladay just stays in Toronto.
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Are prospects enough??
They are highly regarded and all. That is fine. That is no guarantee of success though.
Maybe the Blue Jays are looking for more proven players, at least some.
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by matthiasstephan on Jul 26, 2009 5:19 PM EDT reply actions
As a Phillies fan, I fear for Amaro Jr.
I am still on the fence on this deal, but if he doesn’t pull it off, I fear for the response from a large portion of Phillies fans.
For me, it appears the Phillies already have a really good shot at reaching the WS again, but this is the piece that could put us over the top and with the core of players signed for the next 2 years or so, we could potentially see mini-dynasty forming. That is all of course purebest case scenario stuff, and that is why so many people are struggling with this deal.
I would say they could have Happ or Drabek and either Brown or Taylor, then whoever else they want basically. If there is a reasonable meeting point, I say pull the trigger, but not too hastily.
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Carrasco, Taylor, and Donald may be highly regarded but Taylor is the only one that excites me if I’m the Jays. And they already have OF depth (Snider, Lind, Rios, Wells), pitching is more important and Carrasco and Happ doesn’t measure up to Drabek and either of the other two.
by McCann's the Man on Jul 26, 2009 5:35 PM EDT reply actions
Jays Will regret
turning down the counter offer, if what has been reported is true.
Imo, Taylor is better than Brown. Carrasco could be a mid rotation type of player, Happ bottom of rotation, and Donald could/will provide very good depth in the infield.
The Jays
Won’t get a better offer than that. I’m starting to think Halladay is not going anywhere. He’d be a great addition to any contender, but at the end of the day he can’t hurt anyone playing for the Blue Jays.
by Matt Buggenhagen on Jul 26, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you actually serious? If Texas offered Neftali Feliz or Derek Holland alone, I’d take that before Philly’s counter-offer. Like you said they get a good outfielder (corner OF isn’t a need though, which is why Brown is a better fit), two average at best starters-just look at Happ’s FIP and Carrasco’s AAA stats are ugly, and Donald doesn’t even profile as a starter imo. They need to get an elite prospect back and that offer doesn’t provide one. What the Cards gave up for Holliday was comparable and he is only controlled for 1/3 of the time Halladay is.
by McCann's the Man on Jul 26, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
That is
The best offer they’re going to get. Do I believe it’s the best offer ever, no, but nobody is going to give up an elite level prospect at this point. The Phillies were believed to be the one team willing to part with a top prospect, which was Drabek, but that appears to be over with. Don’t get me wrong I don’t love the deal for the Jays, but I don’t think they are going to get anything better. The Rangers aren’t giving up either Feliz or Holland, the Yankees aren’t giving up Hughes or Chamberlain, the Red Sox aren’t giving up Buchholz, the Brewers aren’t giving up Gamel, the White Sox aren’t giving up Beckham and the Dodgers aren’t giving up Kershaw. That basically leaves the Jays SOL, so either they take this deal, or they hold onto Doc. My guess is Halladay isn’t going anywhere at this point.
by Matt Buggenhagen on Jul 26, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree but I don’t think they should take it, they should wait until the off-season when teams like texas who can’t afford him (salary wise) right now can get in on the bidding
by McCann's the Man on Jul 27, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
According to Buster Olney
Just throwing this out there, but he thinks Halladay stock is going to drop roughly 50% on Aug 1. Because Halladay will be a free agent after 2010 he believes the small market teams wont give up any elite prospects for him because they’ll fear he’ll just leave after one year, and the big market teams wont give up any prospects for him because they’ll just wait a year a sign him as a free agent. Furthermore, it might be tougher to get Halladay to agree to a deal before the season because obviously he doesn’t know who’s in contention, and after all winning is the whole reason he wants out of Toronto. Should be interesting to see how it plays out, but odds are the best value they’re going to get for Halladay is in the next four days.
by Matt Buggenhagen on Jul 27, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
While in theory I agree with that, but I think Buster is forgetting some pretty important factors. Philly and LA are essentially locks to make the playoffs, without Halladay, in other words they don’t need him right now. If in the off-season SF acquires a slugger to go with promotions for Alderson and/or Bumgardner they could be a real thorn in LA’s side. If my Braves can add a bat (could be the promotion of Heyward if he’s ready), keep Rafeal Soriano, and Hudson returns healthy then Philly is no lock to recapture the east. Also the Mets and Rockies will be right there as well and even the Fish are a viable contender next year imo. Philly especially might really need a pitcher and while I doubt they would trade Drabek during the off-season, a package of Dom Brown, Carlos Carrasco, and say JA Happ who would be the odd man out is definitely forseeable. People thought Holliday’s stock would drop big time from the off-season to the deadline but I like what the A’s got back more than what they gave up. I’ll take a slugger like Wallace over a good closer like Street anyday
by McCann's the Man on Jul 27, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Also forgot about the Mets who aren’t really buyers now but with tons of money coming off the books in the off-season and the need to remain competitive to keep their fanbase they could make a run at Roy. They have enough high end prospects to make an appealing offer and a team with Roy and Johan in their rotation has to be competitive. I just think it’d be stupid of the Jays to accept an offer that’s worse than what the Cards gave up for 1/2 a season of Holliday, a lesser albeit everyday player.
by McCann's the Man on Jul 27, 2009 4:42 PM EDT reply actions
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