Rays, Red Sox Talk Three-Way Deal With Indians
by Matt Buggenhagen on Jul 27, 2009 4:48 PM EDT
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PrintAccording to Joel Sherman of the NY Post the Rays and Red Sox are both talking to the Indians about a deal that would send them both Cliff Lee and Victor Martinez. Here's a brief recap of what else Sherman had to say:
- Tampa is willing to part with highly touted pitching prospect Wade Davis.
- The Red Sox still are unwilling to part with Clay Buchholz, but that would have to change for this deal to ever happen.
- The Phillies are also very serious about Lee. One AL executive said with certainty that by 4PM on July 31 the Phillies will have Lee, Roy Halladay or Jarrod Washburn.
- One wrinkle in this three-way deal could be the Rays. Sherman suspects if they lose three straight this weekend to the Yankees, they might be out all together and would probably shift their focus to trading Scott Kazmir.
- One club executive said he would bet "1,000" percent that the Indians move Lee and Martinez because of financial reasons. The same executive said that the economy is hurting the Indians as much as any team.
- Heath Bell is a viable trade option for the Padres because he could become an expensive closer on a bad team.
- The Yankees have shown interest in Bell, who could give them flexibility with Phil Hughes moving to the rotation should they be struck with additional injuries.
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Wait, the Sox and Rays are working TOGETHER?
That can’t be right. Sherman sure has a way with words.
@bs_uf15bosox9be:OverTheMonster-ALLERGEN WARNING:May contain PB.
So...
Lee to Rays?
Martinez to BoSox?
Prospects to Indians.
wouldn’t they get more if they trade them separately?
They want power, We want respect...
I'm not sure
I actually think it could be…
Lee to Red Sox
Martinez for Rays
Prospects to Indians
Unfortunately he doesn’t really touch on whose going where, but given the fact that Smotlz has struggled, Wakefield is on the DL and Daisuke is whatever he is, I find it hard to believe the Red Sox would give up Buchholz without getting a starter in return. Plus the Rays desperately need a catcher, and Martinez would be a huge upgrade over Navarro.
by Matt Buggenhagen on Jul 27, 2009 5:03 PM EDT reply actions
Damn, it would be Beckett, Lester, Lee in the playoffs
They want power, We want respect...
by SenorChuckles on Jul 27, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Both of those scenarios piss me off as a Jays fan
Seriously, who do I need to sleep with to get the Jays out of the AL east?
Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.
by craig in calgary on Jul 27, 2009 5:04 PM EDT reply actions
Tough
To be a Jays fan these days. Do you want to see Halladay go?
by Matt Buggenhagen on Jul 27, 2009 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No, not at all.
I don’t want to see him go, that being said, its better to trade him now than let him walk after 2010 which he would. If he does go, the Phillies trade would be the best scenario. I just hope JP stays strong to his demands and doesn’t back down under pressure.
People that aren’t Jays fans can’t appreciate what he does for our team. We have a very young pitching staff and to a man, they all say they are more prepared for the bigs by watching Doc prepare. Whoever gets Doc, isn’t just getting the best pitcher in baseball, they are getting another pitching coach and an unreal mentor.
Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.
by craig in calgary on Jul 27, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would a trade to the Phillies be the best scenario?
Is this a “you don’t want Halladay going to a division team” thing? I don’t really get that logic. The Blue Jays front office should be interested in building the best team possible— they are not in the “Anybody but the Yankees” business. Somebody will win the World Series this year and it won’t be Toronto— other than that, who cares who’s going to win. The front office should only be concerned with developing a competitive team in the coming years.
I really don’t see what the gameplan is here for the Blue Jays. Several talking heads have mentioned that the prospects that would be needed to make the deal enticing to Toronto simply cannot be delivered by other teams. That’s stupid. The Blue Jays have to go through this thought process.
1) Can the compete this year with Halladay?
2) Can they compete next year with Halladay?
Seeing as how the answer for 1 is definately no and the answer for 2 is probably no, it makes no sense to keep Halladay. Halladay isn’t worth a suite of prospects which no other trade partner will pay. Halladay is worth in a trade exactly what the market will bear less the draft picks forfeited plus the difference in salary from Halladay to the incoming players.
Also, it seems to me like the Blue Jays should have just dealt Halladay and Vernon Wells to the Yankees for basically anything. Halladay’s salary is an inconvenience; Wells’ salary is a nightmare. No team (other than the Yankees) will take on Wells’ salary. Without unloading Wells, what’s the point? That contract will cripple the team for a half-decade.
by Michael White on Jul 27, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I really
doubt the Yankees are taking Vernon Wells salary.
He’s been as good as Melky and/or Gardner, and they make in a year what Wells makes in a game.
by FreeBradshaw on Jul 27, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
If the Yankees don’t, I really don’t see anybody doing it was really my point. But still, you don’t think the Yankees would take on Wells’ salary if it meant getting Halladay and not giving up much by way of prospects? It would be a straight money deal- the Yankees seem to have plenty of that….
by Michael White on Jul 27, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The Halladay/Wells package isn't going to happen.
And how do you not see the logic of not wanting to face Doc 3-5 times a year?
If the Philies and Yankees offer the same package valuewise, why wouldn’t you want him to go to the Phils (or Dodgers, or Brewers etc).
Toronto does not have a strong fanbase in Toronto, drawing only between 20K-30K. How is dumping arguably the 2 faces of our franchise for, as you say, “basically anything” going to improve the way the team is supported? Its hard to get free agents to come to Toronto so any money is saved from “dumping” these 2 salaries, will never yield the same return we would get with having Doc and Vernon (as bad as he’s been this year)
The only way this is a win for the Jays, is to trade him for another team for 2-3 major league ready prospects to help build around the young nucleus we already have so we can compete in 2010 and 2011. If not, we cheer our asses off for him the next year and 1/2, let him walk via free agency and get a couple supplemental picks and hope they work out.
Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.
by craig in calgary on Jul 27, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Who cares how many times the Blue Jays face him the next 1.5 years? The Blue Jays aren’t going to be competitive anyway.
As for getting fan support. Winning usually helps. I’m a bit confused, because you say the only way this is a win is to trade him to another team for 2-3 prospects and rebuild. I wholeheartedly agree with that. I would just argue that the distinction between trading him to the Yankees or the Phillies is irrelevant. You’ve earmarked 2010 (um no chance) and 2011 as the years you can compete— so what difference does it make what pitchers you face in the mean time?
Honestly though, you no doubt know the Blue Jays (since they are your team) better than I do. So if you think the Blue Jays can be compeitive next year, then you absolutely should not trade Halladay. If you don’t think there is a realistic shot at competing in 2010; I would take the best deal offered this year regardless of who the counter-party is.
by Michael White on Jul 27, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
This team is better than you think
We were 14 games over .500 in Mid May then got kicked in the gut with a 9 game losing streak. That hurt.
The Jays have lost literally 4,000 starting pitchers this year and rotation in 2010 will look alot like it did in 2008 when they were the best in the majors. Our best players (Wells/Rios) have have had horri-awful years this year but have had some break out years from some of the younger players.
To be competitive in 2010, alot has to go right, but we aren’t as far off as many people think. Thats why I hate that people say we “have” to trade Halladay because 2009 didn’t go as planned. Honeslty we are around .500 with 4 rookies in our rotation. If Wells and Rios were even close to their career averages an lost only say 2,000 starting pitchers, we’d still be in the playoff hunt.
Happiness is a long walk with a putter in your hand.
by craig in calgary on Jul 27, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It means
both teams would be getting a player.
by Matt Buggenhagen on Jul 27, 2009 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be a great blockbuster
The indians have so many pieces that other teams need. The part about bell is that he has this year and next year under control of the padres. Might cost more then. Great piece matt
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