Joe Torre Comments on Steroid-Tainted Stars

by Eli Greenspan on Jul 7, 2009 10:17 AM EDT Comment 6 comments

Joe Torre made some interesting remarks about the crop of Hall of Fame-caliber, now tainted players yesterday. He said in looking at the whole of the careers of players like Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Manny Ramirez and Alex Rodriguez, " I feel, ability-wise, there were players that were-cheating aside, Barry Bonds is a Hall of Fame type player, because before anyone questioned him about anything, he won four MVPs. And there are very few guys who win four MVPs who aren't in the Hall of Fame. Now that doesn't mean he should be in the Hall of Fame. I'm not saying that." Torre went on, "Pete Rose, and that has nothing to do with steroids-he's not in the Hall of Fame and he certainly has the credentials to be in the Hall of Fame. I think Clemens, I think Manny, I think Alex and all those people are in that upper group of guys that, ability-wise, with steroids stuff aside,I think are legitimate players to begin with."

I'm not exactly sure what Torre was trying to say here. It sounds like he is saying their careers would have been Hall of Fame-worthy without the steroid use. That is probably true but when he lumps them in with gambler-cheater Pete Rose, he underscores that cheating is cheating.

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strange answer

by Heyward is the next crime dog on Jul 7, 2009 10:44 AM EDT reply actions

I once heard the “wise” Peter Gammons say Barry Bonds was a Hall of Fame player. If anyone could find video of that, I would be impressed.

His argument was that most would assume that if Bonds took anything, it was after 1998. And in 1998 he became the game’s only 400/400 guy. Also, he, without steroids (most likely) he would’ve become the game’s only 500/500 guy, and he did. Those are HOF numbers without steroids. Gammons said he would vote for him. Now, a lot has changed since I heard that, but it’s the only think I ever enjoyed hearing from the man.

So, I can understand Torre’s argument. It’s pretty much the same as the afore mentioned one. At least in the case of some players, their numbers were good enough before the juice. Now, with Manny, I have no idea. He could’ve been on stuff for years.

Lumping them with Rose is just a bad argument. I can’t disagree there.

"Liberal is to the media what the 2008 San Francisco Giants are to good baseball."
-My Father.

by thecrippesking on Jul 7, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions

ehh

If players used steroids at the ed of their career so they could keep performing, I’m not sure. But look at barry bonds, he hit more homers in the last 7 years of his career than in his first 10

No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra

by trademan56 on Jul 7, 2009 12:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions

He also had that short porch in right the last 7 years of his career. Mays once said that he expected Bonds to hit 50 homers the first year in that park. He hit 49.

Look, I’m not saying the man didn’t do anything. I am not naive. However, I think you’re crazy if you think his numbers weren’t there before the steroids.

"Liberal is to the media what the 2008 San Francisco Giants are to good baseball."
-My Father.

by thecrippesking on Jul 7, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions

I am crazy

but when did he start getting huge? 1998 right?

No one goes there anymore, it's too crowded. - Yogi Berra

by trademan56 on Jul 8, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions

Steroid use

I think you guys are nuts….you can’t almost cheat or cheat half the time…All these guys cheated..especially Bonds McGuire Sosa they made millions more because of roids and added gigantic numbers to their resume. They tainted the game and stole records of clean players..such as Aaron and Maris….who both deserve their records back. So no way do they belong in the Hall. I’m a Yankee fan and I lost a lot of respect for Torre in his last years as a manager. Manny is caught cheating..he could care less… his phony apologies while making 33 million dollars on the backs of hard working citizens is a joke. My Dad a NYC Cop would tell me most criminals/cheats are cheats long before they get caught. So who knows how long Bonds and Manny and the others were cheating…Baseball more than any other sport is a sport of personal numbers and accomplishments compared to other records…all of them cheated to better their numbers and wallets and while you can’t take the money back letting these guys into the Hall of Fame is a disgrace to all the clean hard working athletes in there.

by Mack94 on Jul 7, 2009 8:17 PM EDT reply actions