Blue Jays' Price For Downs Is Hilarious (Edited: But Understandable As A Starting Point!)
by Brandon C. on Jul 28, 2010 4:26 PM EDT
41 comments
Scott Downs would be the best Yankees left hander in years. Downs would help keep the bullpen intact and would make a big difference in a possible pennant race. The Red Sox could also use Downs. That said, is it worth a top prospect? No. Which is why the Blue Jays' asking price for Scott Downs is-well-a lot.
The Blue Jays are asking the Yankees for either Jesus Montero or Joba Chamberlain. Those two being the catcher of the future and a struggling reliever with a very bright future, that once was the centerpiece in a possible Roy Halladay deal.
From the Red Sox, the Blue Jays would want one of Casey Kelly or Jose Iglesias. Those being a top pitching prospect and the shortstop of the future.
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What is he worth, then?
Start with better than 2 first round picks as a type A.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
He would just accept arbitration
Not going to get much if he rejects it, as what team would want to pay the two draft choices and the salary?
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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?
Don’t they only have to surrender 1 draft pick (With the round determined by protected status and other Class A signings) with the other being a sandwich round pick?
Yes, I just realized that, my bad
Still, doubt any team would want to do that
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Why? Even if you presume that teams wouldn’t be willing to surrender a 1st round pick for Downs that still leaves anyone with a protected pick + anyone who was going to sign a more highly ranked Class A player anyways (Downs is pretty low on the Elias Class A ranking IIRC) meaning a 2nd round pick… that’s a lot of potential teams. On the other hand that lowers his return to what would amount to 2 months of service + 1SR Draft Pick + 2R Pick… still a decent haul.
It's tough to tell
A lot of hypotheticals involved with him being traded possibly
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Good thing there is something worng with a team who expects something good from the Yankees/Sox.
Let’s just give away our #1 reliever so that it appeases the $$$$$$$$$$$$$ franchises. That’s a good start.
Well
A. The Blue Jays shouldn’t even necessarily sell.
B. Do you think it’s a fair trade to give up the top prospect on the team and 6th best prospect in all of baseball for a relief pitcher? I wouldn’t give up that for Soria, but that’s just me
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Considering the Yankees apparently offered Montero for Soria, I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all for the Jays to ask for Montero or Joba for Downs. Why wouldn’t you ask? Another option is dealing him to a divisional rival, which automatically ups the price in my books.
And why in the world shouldn’t the Jays sell?
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
I actually don't know why I said the Jays shouldn't sell
Sorry about that!
It’s fine to ask for it, but I don’t see how dealing him to a division rival for 2 months is going to mean anything. Unless he resigns or you are in the race it won’t affect you much
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Weeeeeeiiiird
A Yankees fan thinking that the asking price is too high.
News Flash: the other 28 teams in MLB aren’t farm systems for the Sox and Yanks.
Maybe the Jays should toss in Jose Bautista too?
Honestly I wouldn’t even trade Downs for Joba. Keep tubbs in Pinstripes, I hear they are thinning.
by craig in calgary on Jul 28, 2010 5:44 PM EDT reply actions
They're not? Weird
You wouldn’t trade Downs for Joba? That’s interesting, most Jays fans I talked to would, but I’d be interested in hearing your argument.
Do you think Downs for Iglesias, Kelly, or Montero is fair? They’re top prospects in baseball that could become 30 hr hitters/aces. Why would you trade that for a reliever that becomes a free agent at the end of the season?
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Why would you trade that for a reliever that becomes a free agent at the end of the season?
Because you are a contender and those players aren’t going to help you this year, while Downs can help you win the WS this year.
Gotta play 'em, might as well win 'em.
I'm under the impression that Downs wouldn't be the deciding factor in winning the World Series
that could be the main difference in our opinions
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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What does "fair" have to do with it?
The Blue Jays ask for something that would make it worthwhile for them to trade Downs. That’s it. They’ll happily keep him if it comes down to it.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Jul 28, 2010 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright, that's a fair point
I’m interested to see what they’re asking for from teams like the Mets/Giants. Hope it’s same price
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Joba is going to become an ace while rotting in the Yankee Pen?
Not that I am suggesting that he be traded for Downs, but as I see it his best chance to become an ace is to be dealt to a team that can afford patience.
I was talking about Kelly when I said potential ace
As for Joba..I don’t even know anymore
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Realistically, its stupid to expect a top prospect for Downs
Regardless of his ability to help teams win a world series now, these prospects can help win them 5 world series later.
I would take maybe 1 top 100 prospect and another high ceiling guy for Downs and be very happy. He will accept arb no question.
And even if teams do sign him as a free agent, he will probably be the 3rd or 4th best FA they sign, meaning we won’t get 2 first rounders for him.
Onions Baby Onions
Why is this even an article?
How is it ridiculous for the Jays to ask for a top prospect in return for one of the best and most reliable bullpen arms in the game? The guy hasn’t given up a run since like early June. He WOULD be a fantastic addition to any team with postseason hopes. He will be a type A free agent, worth two picks. And you’re telling me its hilarious that the Jays want a top prospect in return? Are you telling me you wouldn’t even ASK for a top prospect if you were the Jays GM? I’d say you were a bloody poor GM if you didn’t even ask for a top prospect.
It's not the asking as much as the expecting that in return
If the Jays really want to move him, which is tough to tell right now, they’d have to lower their price. As I’ve said before he’ll likely accept arb and he likely won’t be the deciding factor in the World Series/Playoff races
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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1. Easily one of the best lefty relievers in baseball and probably the best available at the moment.
2. You’re trading him to a divisional rival which increases the asking price.
3. You always ask for higher than what you expect.
Toronto Maple Leafs: Nowhere to go but up!
I'm just curious
How exactly in this specific case would trading him to a division rival make the price go up? It’s two months for a reliever when you aren’t in the playoff race, it really won’t hurt your chances at anything, I’d just go after the best offer regardless of where the team is. Only way it can come back is if he re-signs
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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I would go for the trade if I were Brian Cashman. Throw in Joba and Chan Ho Park and you have a deal. However we will keep Jesus. However, If I were the Red Sox I would pass because my farm system is already hurting and sending Jose Iglesias and/or Casey Kelly to Toronto would be a one way ticket out of Boston for me.
I'm not sure I understand your position on this... at all.
If I’m understanding your points correctly, you’re saying that the jays should trade Downs for literally anything they can get because he’s a free agent in a few months anyways, but also saying that he wouldn’t turn down arbitration in a million years? So wouldn’t that mean that the jays would either get those draft picks for downs, or have him back on their team next year anyways, meaning that they wouldn’t be walking away empty handed if they fail to trade him? Why under those circumstances should they deal him for just anything? It’s not like any of us have a crystal ball telling us that 2011 is the year his age will catch up to him.
I’m also not understanding why Montero and Joba are being considered equally valuable, but I suppose that’s another discussion for another time
I understand his position completely
At this time of year teams are desperate for hitting, relief, defense, starting pitching, or catching, that they are willing to destroy their farm system for the chance at October glory. The only big players worth destroying a farm system are Cliff Lee, Dan Haren, and Roy Oswalt. The only other player worth destroying a farm system for is Joe Mauer and he signed an extension for eight years during Spring Training. Had that not happen, the Twins could have shipped him to the Yankees for Montero.
Oh, If I made it sound like Joba and Montero are equal that's my fault
They definitely aren’t. They were just the two names being mentioned. I’m not saying the Jays should just give him away, I’m saying their asking price is unreasonable
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Alright let me make a few points
1. I wrote this a bit harsher than I meant to. After reading the comments I understand the counterpoint to what I wrote, while I still believe that expecting a top prospect in all of baseball for Downs is unreasonable, I get where you guys are coming from.
2. Downs has worse peripherals against the teams the Yankees/Red Sox would be competing against, so that should make the value go down a bit.
3. Seems like it’s Blue Jays fans (and an Angels fan) vs. Yankees fans on this one, which is understandable with a post like this. Just don’t call me a hater because of this specific opinion. Believe me, I’m not.
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Laughable come on...,.,
The Jays are within their right to ask for these players , considering it’s within the division. I hope Alex sticks to his guns. You just have to look at his numbers over the year with the Jays.
Alright, I'll jump in as a Yankees fan
Is it laughable to ask for this? No, not quite. The Blue Jays are starting high which is a normal tactic.
I doubt they actually think they’ll get it, but if they do that is funny.
Scott Downs is worth .1 more WAR than Joba Chamberlain this year
he is also 10 years older, way more expensive, not under contract for nearly as long
Downs is a LOOGY, and a good one, but the Yankees have Marte and Logan.
He is also not a sure thing top 5-10 prospect like Montero or Kelly at one of the most premium positions.
by Monotonousblob on Jul 29, 2010 12:30 AM EDT reply actions
Oh and one last thing
These are the exact comments I was looking for. Arguments and discussions are great, especially for a site like this one that isn’t commented on too often. Thanks for coming by everyone and hopefully you comment when it’s not angrily at me!
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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So Jays fans think that Downs has the same value as Cliff Lee?
The M’s nearly traded Cliff Lee, the guy who is a Cy Young candidate, for Montero. Now the Jays think Downs, a 34 year old reliever should net them the same prospect that Cliff Lee would? And to think the Sox would be stupid enough to trade Kelly for Downs, ha. This isnt about being a Yankees fan, this is about having some sanity. This would be like the Jays trading Kyle Drabek for Kyle Farnsworth.
These things are not all the same apples. Comparing Downs and Lee is fundamentally skewing the argument. If we’re talking about Downs’ value to the Yankees, it is a very different thing than Lee’s value to the Yankees (which is zero, since they didn’t get it). The Yankees have poor left-handed bullpen opinions, and the best one on the market is worth two top 100 draft picks. So, are the Yankees comfortable with making a post season run (and going into said post-season) with an injured Marte as the best lefty hope on the horizon, or do they secure their bullpen by buying high on someone like Downs? Whatever the decision, it has nothing to do with the relative value of Lee.
The nice thing is that if the Yankees get beaten in the post season, not trading for Downs will be a factor regardless of the circumstances. That’s worth the draft picks alone.
Well...
then the Jays should piss off. The Yanks inquired, the Jays obviously don’t want to deal…so that’s fine. If they want their draft picks, then get em.
Although he’s been inconsistent, Logan’s been pitching excellent his last few outings…maybe he’s the answer?
Don’t see the point of giving in for Downs. Cuz if the Yanks at some point get an AL East opponent in the playoffs, the Rays or Red Sox tee off on Downs, so that in itself makes the trade a bit ignorant, especially if its for a top flight prospect.
Downs is no better then Marte was when the Yanks traded for him, and that’s pretty much been a disaster..the guy’s never healthy. Don’t see the reason for this.
Go New York Go!
I don't see why you'd expect the asking price for Downs to be that much different than it was before the season
I remember you asking me to write a piece about it for Pinstripe Alley before the season started . . . anyone who didn’t see it then can find it at http://www.pinstripealley.com/2010/2/1/1285708/scott-downs-in-pinstripes.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Well at that time you were asking for a 3b or OF prospect
Do you think they budge for two high ceiling guys like you mentioned in that, or that was then
Writer for Pinstripe Alley, MLB Daily Dish
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Yankees fans don't really worry about this, but
teams that are rebuilding always look for the best available players. The Jays are fairly pitching rich, but you can always trade from your strengths if need be, anyway. I think Downs probably turns arbitration down and looks for a two- or three-year deal, so I’d like to see him turned into at least one (if not two) high-ceiling prospects.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
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