Speculating On Possible Matt Garza Trades
I know this is going to be a bit of a futile exercise, but I think it'll be fun and so we'll proceed as if I didn't mention this sentence. Rival executives told Jon Heyman of SI.com that they expect the Chicago Cubs to trade Matt Garza over the winter as the team retools under new president Theo Epstein.
He's essentially the one piece that the Cubs have that's truly going to be in command this winter, unless they make shortstop Starlin Castro or catcher Geovany Soto available. If the Cubs want to add some premium young pieces to their farm system, and they need to, this is essentially the key opportunity. I'll note that the Cubs already gave up numerous quality young pieces to get him in the first place, including top shortstop prospect Hak-Ju Lee, so in some sense they're basically trying to recoup value here.
Luckily for Chicago, Garza had a fantastic season for the Cubs, posting a 3.32 ERA and 2.95 FIP over 198 innings in his first season in the National League. It was easily the best season of his career, and has established Garza as one of the top pitchers in the league. That frankly wasn't a sure thing before the 2011 season.
So getting to things, I wanted to speculate on what kind of deals Garza could command. This is a very good pitcher that's going to be under team control for two seasons. MLBTR projects him to make $8.7 million in 2012 through arbitration, which would put him in line for a salary over $10 million in 2013. Even so, two years at roughly $20 million for a pitcher of Garza's caliber is a serious bargain, which explains why he's going to be such a strong asset on the market. Below the fold, I'm going to go through some suitors and what the Cubs might be able to command from them.
Realistically, the Cubs aren't going to be able to get that much for Garza. He's a very good pitcher, but he's not exactly cheap over the next two years. I think they'll probably be able to command a solid grade B+ prospect, as well as a good grade B prospect and another solid low-level piece with some upside. Here's what I think deals from a few teams could look like, using that idea as a guideline.
Boston Red Sox
Offer: 3B Will Middlebrooks, OF Brandon Jacobs, LHP Felix Doubront
This would be a pretty solid offer from Boston, in my opinion. Middlebrooks is their top prospect, and he would fit nicely as Chicago's new third baseman starting in 2013. Jacobs would give them an impact athlete with some serious upside in the outfield, and Doubront is near MLB-ready although he struggled some in 2011.
New York Yankees
Offer: C Gary Sanchez, RHP David Phelps, 2B Angelo Gumbs
If the Cubs can pry either Dellin Betances or Manny Banuelos, I'm guessing they'd prefer that over Sanchez. But this is a reasonable offer, with the Cubs getting two high-upside position prospects that are a few years away as well as a solid near MLB-ready pitcher that could fill a spot at the back of the rotation.
Texas Rangers
Offer: LHP Martin Perez, 3B Christina Villanueva, LHP Miguel De Los Santos
The Rangers may not be willing to give up Perez, in which case names like Mike Olt and Robbie Ross become obvious targets. Chicago may demand Perez, though, because otherwise it's hard to see the Cubs getting a legitimate premium prospect in return.
Colorado Rockies
Offer: 3B Ian Stewart, RHP Chad Bettis, OF Tim Wheeler
Stewart isn't a prospect and he's going to cost a couple million for 2012, but the Cubs need a third baseman and he's certainly got some potential. In addition, Bettis is a quality power arm with upside if he doesn't end up in the bullpen, and Wheeler's breakout in 2011 could have him replacing Alfonso Soriano in the Cubs outfield in 2013. It's unclear if the Rockies are willing to give up this kind of talent, but they could use a front man for their rotation and don't want to waste the primes of Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez.
Florida Marlins
Offer: 1B Gaby Sanchez
This one is just me totally thinking outside of the box. The Marlins want an impact pitcher for the next couple years. Giving up Logan Morrison would be totally excessive for Garza. Sanchez is under team control through 2015, and would give the Cubs a cheap, solid first baseman long-term. It would allow the Marlins to move Morrison back to first base while adding that impact arm. The Cubs may want prospects that don't hit the majors for a year or two, though, given the team's spot on the win spectrum.
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I think you are undervaluing Garza
The Sawx and Rangers ideas you float make some sense, but I can’t see the Cubs selling Garza for less than a true top prospect or young cheap starting player with upside (much more like Morrison than Sanchez, e.g.)
Fair enough.
I’m worried that teams will see the price tag and shy away from giving up that much, although it probably depends on whether guys like Gio Gonzalez and Anibal Sanchez hit the market. After talking to some people on Twitter, I agree that the Rockies offer is probably a bit light. Colorado might need to give up Nolan Arenado, although I’m not sure that they do that.
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by Satchel Price on Dec 1, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
The Red Sox will take him
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Why can't the Royals have him?
I read a tweet (from Olney, I think) that said they shied away from starters because they have younger, cheaper arms almost ready and they don’t want to either pay too much or give away prospects.
I dunno, I think GMDM needs to reconsider that stance a LITTLE. I think the team is close enough that prospects-for-starters should absolutely be on the table. Garza would be one of those.
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Tell me the young arms the Red Sox have
Doubront? They are unhappy with his work ethic. Weiland? Not ready. Pimentel and Britton? ERAs over 9 last year.
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 1, 2011 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, no young arms to speak of
unless you mean Buchholz. Then I would say to trading him, HAHAHAHAHAHA
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 1, 2011 9:09 PM EST up reply actions
There is a mis-reading of the Cubs intentions here
The Cubs aren’t as highly motivated as you seem to imply in your response. If a team isn’t giving up top prospects, then the Cub aren’t trading him for the sake of trading him. The only purpose of a Cubs trade of Garza would be to pick up multiple great young players with which to build. It’s not like they can’t afford Garza.
There’s simply not enough return in any of these offers for a 27 year old front line pitcher with 2 years of cost control left. When it came to team-independent stats, Garza ranked with the top pitchers in baseball. They will need to get blown away by an offer and none of these offers would come close to doing that. If these are the best teams will offer, then you can bet Garza will still be a Cub come 2012.
Good points, I think. Satchel's point, if I'm reading it correctly,
is that his cost over those two years is significant enough to downgrade the return. I’m not so sure.
A good comp for a potential trade is the Royals/Greinke trade to the Brewers. Remember, they controlled him for an additional two years at $13.5M each, and it’s tough to say they didn’t get a mega-haul with a starting SS, a now-premier CF prospect, and a couple pitching prospects…
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5935586
That’s exactly the kinda deal Theo should be looking at.
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I just think that's a tad heavy.
Greinke was worth 19.3 WAR in the three years before he was traded. Garza’s been worth 9.7 WAR in the same period. Greinke was a significantly better pitcher.
Greinke was coming a tad more expensive, but I wouldn’t say that it was enough to offset the track record advantage, which included a Cy Young Award. Greinke was a more valuable piece than Garza is.
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by Satchel Price on Dec 1, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Wait -- I totally agree with this too.
But we’re also talking about the Royals being able to get that much for a player demanding off the team. It’s a miracle they got that much. I think the point is that Garza has more value to the Cubs ON the team than for what other teams might be willing to give up. I could be wrong.
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Agreed. I think the Greinke deal is a good model
That deal brought in multiple young players at premium positions, three of which were either MLB players or close to being MLB ready. Escobar was coming off a year where he was Milwaukee’s top prospect — hard to believe now that some thought he was better than Starlin Castro when both were prospects. Odorizzi was that year’s top Brewer prospect, then there were a couple other players with upside thrown in in Cain and Jeffress. I think a deal would be similar, both in terms of MLB readiness, prospect status, and upside.
Offers too light
I agree, none of these proposals will fly, they are too light. Think of the weight of the four the Cubs gave up to get him. Maybe an Olt, M.Perez, N.Ramirez, and an OF could get it done for the Rangers, for example, although you know the Cubs would ask about Profar first. This is a legit #2 MLB starter who just had his best year.
I think the Yankees offer is not enough. Hopefully you’re right, though!
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Do you think
they might have to add Romine?
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by Marisa Ingemi on Dec 1, 2011 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t see why the Cubs would want two catchers in the deal.
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Yeah, they wouldn't target that.
They have to get Sanchez, Banuelos or Betances in any deal. I think Sanchez is the one that the Yankees would be most likely to let you, but you could reasonably replace him with one of those pitchers in a deal, as I said.
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by Satchel Price on Dec 1, 2011 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not so sure that Sanchez counts with the two pitchers, though. I think he’s on a slightly lower tier than the pair of pitchers. Would love to get a Cubs side of this, as if that trade is an option I say do it!
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He probably doesn't
I agree that he’s probably a tier behind.
Another upside guy they could target is Mason Williams.
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by Satchel Price on Dec 1, 2011 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
I really like Williams, and I think the Yankees do, too. Outfield depth is one of the few problems the Yankees have.
I really like your offer if it could be a possibility.
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Satchel, I really like this piece -- you should do more of them. :)
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by Justin Bopp on Dec 1, 2011 9:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I’ve been trying to read daily, but if I miss a post that has to do with the Yankees send me the link and I’ll definitely fanshot it. Almost missed this one!
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Wow thanks a ton Brandon!
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I would do the yankees deal in a second
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As a Yankee fan
I completely agree. Sanchez’s ceiling is higher than Montero, in my opinion, since he can still become serviceable behind the plate, but I wouldn’t mind that proposed deal.
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Sanchez’s ceiling is higher than Montero, in my opinion, since he can still become serviceable behind the plate
I completely disagree. So can Montero, first of all, and Sanchez’ defense was pitiful this past season. Montero is miles ahead of Sanchez in all categories.
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Montero looked pretty bad behind the plate in the limited time he got last year. Despite Sanchez’ terrible defense last year, many people can see Sanchez sticking behind the plate long-term. There isn’t anyone who can see Montero being a full-time catcher; in a perfect world, maybe he can play one-two days a week back there.
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